Yesterday I had an interesting interaction with an English acquaintance. He started talking to me about it being November 11, Armistice Day, as though he expected that the date would mean a lot to me. I told him that Ireland did not directly take part in World War I so that the date does not have great significance for me. In Ireland there is no great remembrance tradition for World War I due to the fact that the events that happened in Ireland itself at that time had a far greater bearing on our history.
The acquaintance pointed to the Irish blood that was spilt on Flanders' fields and that November 11 was all about remembering those that gave their lives in World War I. It is not the first time that I have had this lecture because I was regularly scolded when I lived in the UK for not wearing a poppy.
As far as I am concerned people should be free to remember historical events if they wish but I do object to being told that I should remember something that does not mean a lot to me. Yes it was an awful war but Irish people have fought in countless wars historically including hundreds of thousands who fought on both sides in the American Civil War. In my own family a number of people fought for the British Army in World War II. Other people I know have been in the US Army, the French Foreign Legion and the Irish Army. I don't feel any compulsion to remember all of the Irish people that ever fought in any war.
Moreover, I don't see why British people want to push their version of history on to Irish people. We can all read history in our own ways and glorify our own nation's role but that does nothing to alter the present. From my viewpoint Ireland's experience as part of the UK was a disaster that led to a collapse in the country's population, the decline of our native language and to the partition of the country. I prefer to look forward rather than backwards with selective memory. It is not for nothing that they say "if the English could only remember, if the Irish could only forget".
Donaldson’s website down
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As Nevin points out, Jeffrey Donaldson’s website “is currently being
upgraded”. However, the website is still online apart from the domain name,
with th...
2 hours ago
6 comments:
i think you are generalising a bit too much, im british and would never and have never heard any britt force a historical date or tradition on anyone!
surely people remember WW1/WW2 as a whole and not just remembering the fallen soldiers of their own country? i do anyway! its important to remember some wars even if your country didnt play a part in it, WW2 for example needs to be remembered or history inevitably will repeat its self
it may just be me but i have noticed a few references to the UK in your blog and none of them seem to be that good, do you dislike us so?
By 'British people' I obviously meant some and not all 60 million. I would not have made the statement if it were not my experience of having lived in the UK and interacted with many British people throughout my life.
"surely people remember WW1/WW2 as a whole and not just remembering the fallen soldiers of their own country"
People may remember any wars as they wish. Personally I do not engage in any memorials, not for the American Civil War, not for the Spanish Civil War, not for the Easter Rising and not for the World Wars.
"it may just be me but i have noticed a few references to the UK in your blog and none of them seem to be that good, do you dislike us so?"
I think that the UK has contributed many great things to the world and I enjoy British culture immensely. It is certainly not a case of disliking 'you' as a people since half of my family is from there and I lived there myself for a number of years.
However, if you know something of Irish history you might realize why I am not positive about the United Kingdom a state "From my viewpoint Ireland's experience as part of the UK was a disaster that led to a collapse in the country's population, the decline of our native language and to the partition of the country"
I really agree with the saying "if the English could only remember, if the Irish could only forget". I'm sick and tired certain political groups going on and on about the 700-800 years but likewise I a tired of explaining to English people the difference between the UK and GB.
War is indeed a terrible thing but people should not be forced into remembering or glorifying any event. That's why I have alot of issue with Gordon Brown's GB-day.
I for one do not regard d-day as being a happy day as the end of WW2 marked the beginning of 50 years of Communism in the Baltics. Also we shouldn't forget the Irish that died in Lebanon or the Congo.
So really I agree with you Aidan. The issue is all not black and white, the saintly and proud British chaps winning over the evil and vile Hun....
Thanks Colm. It's nice to know that somebody understands my point here. There was a very good post on Polandian yesterday about how the end of WW2 was the start of another nightmare for Poland.
I certainly understand your points. I'm indifferent to all these war remembrances myself, I don't see the point of reliving what happened many years ago when surely the point is to move into the future and deal with today's problems. I don't see that the Second World War is any more important than all the other bloody and devastating wars that have been fought, and are still being fought, all over the globe. The British have a lot to apologise for and they are still pretty arrogant towards other countries.
Nick,
I think that any country that had colonies has plenty of unsavioury events in its history. As long as nobody glorifies the past and whitewashes the bad bits I don't expect anybody to feel in any way responsible for the past. German people can be particularly cringeworthy when in apologetic mode.
As far as I am concerned people are welcome to remember what they like but, as you say, there are enough bad things going on right world now so everything in moderation.
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